Ross Lyon has labelled Fremantle discard Matt de Boer as a player who could have captained the club or been a great lieutenant to Nathan Fyfe early in his captaincy.

Speaking on his podcast on the AFL website, former Dockers coach Lyon said de Boer was the list-management call that stuck out in his mind from his time at St Kilda and Fremantle.

He also described Jesse Hogan as a “work in progress” and retained hope the young forward would recover from mental health issues and return to the game.

De Boer played 138 games at Fremantle and has since played 50 games for GWS after falling out of favour at the Dockers.

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He had been an integral part of the senior team in Lyon’s first four seasons and was in the club’s leadership group.

But in 2016, at the age of 26, he played only four senior games, instead spearheading Peel’s push to a premiership in the WAFL.

“They are list-management decisions,” Lyon said. “List managers get fairly well paid and take responsibility and list managers get the final say.

“You may disagree. It is like match committee. You have got to walk out and win and lose together.

“It all depends what you are trying to build for. We can stay competitive or we can try and build to win one so we are prepared to go backwards to go forward.

“You can play league footy but there are two competitions — the ones that are building and the ones that are challenging.

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“The obvious one is Matty de Boer at Fremantle. His role … they tried to free up positions for his role but he could have been captaining that club or have been great support for Fyfe.

“Culturally, an outstanding man that competed really well.

“It is not like anyone that we brought in replaced him quickly. That is one (list-management call) that jumps to mind.”

Lyon labelled St Kilda’s recruitment of Andrew Lovett as an unmitigated disaster but held out hope for Hogan, traded in by Fremantle before the 2019 season.

“I think Jesse Hogan is still a work in progress and we all hope Jesse can get through and come back because he is a sublime talent,” Lyon said.

“He played some really good football last year off no pre-season. We can see what he can do. I just think there are some challenges there.”

He did, however, admit there were examples from his career, at Fremantle, St Kilda or both, where the clubs recruited players which the player group had advised against. He did not specify examples.

“When there is some noise about a player coming and your player group is a bit hesitant and you push that through and it doesn’t work then you have got all sorts of problems,” Lyon said.

“When your senior players get to the roll-the-eyes stage then it makes it very hard to bring the next one through.

“It is king or dunce a little bit and there is always opportunity cost.”